David Baddiel: ‘People have a huge blind spot when it comes to Jews’

There is a moment in David Baddiel’s polemical new Channel 4 documentary Jews Don’t Count when he goes head-to-head with fellow Jew Miriam Margolyes over Israel. It is fascinating, a little awkward – and makes for great telly.

The comedian’s contention is that as an agnostic, non-observant Jew who feels entirely disengaged from his putative “homeland”, he resents the way in which “progressives” (for which read “liberal Lefties”) engage in pro-Palestine whataboutery whenever the subject of anti-Semitism arises.

“No one is suggesting that the state of Israel hasn’t done many bad things to Palestinians. But British Jews are not responsible for those actions,” says Baddiel. “And expecting them to feel so is racist. We have no collective responsibility, as Jews, for Israel.”

Margolyes, who is at her most passionate and thoughtful (for which read “no rude words apart from the expression ‘flying fart’”) disagrees. The actress acknowledges anti-Semitism is present in British life but asserts that Israel is very much the problem. Hers and Baddiel’s.

“I think that if you know bad things are being done by people to whom you are connected, strongly connected, it is your duty to speak about it, to draw attention to it and to try to change it,” she says, firmly. “I think it’s wilful of you to deny connection; they are your people.”

His rebuttal goes to the very heart of Baddiel’s central theme: “That is not a stricture imposed on any other minority. No Left-wing person would say to a Muslim who is trying to talk about Islamophobia, ‘What about human rights in Saudi Arabia?’ ”

Neither is prepared to budge an inch but there is a sense that it won’t affect their nascent friendship. “Miriam is amazing,” reflects Baddiel when we meet at Channel 4 to talk about the programme. “I knew she had dearly held views that diverged from my own because after I wrote my book she wrote to me.”

Jews Don’t Count is a thought-provoking, occasionally scabrously funny, reprise of his book of the same name, published in 2021. Fast and furious, its aim was to highlight and kickstart a debate on “anti-Semitism, the racism that sneaks past” while virtue-signalling Lefties are professing their dedication to the defence of diversity.

“This is for the good guys, the progressives,” he says bluntly. “Those on the Left who believe themselves to be on the right side of history, but have a huge blind spot when it comes to Jews as vulnerable and in need of allies at a time of rising anti-Semitism in Britain and America.”

There are many compelling voices in the TV mix, including David Schwimmer, Sarah Silverman, Rachel Riley and Stephen Fry. I mildly point out the irony of wanting to point out that Jewish people are a vulnerable minority rather than a privileged and influential elite – by interviewing a load of privileged, influential Jewish people. Baddiel, up to now glittering and fierce, has the good grace to break into a broad grin.

“I want people to watch it!” he cries. “Yes, I could have spoken to academics and ordinary, not-at-all-privileged Jews – but big stars means more viewers and a wider audience.”

Recent events such as the broadcast regulator Ofcom finding the BBC was guilty of “serious editorial misjudgment” in its coverage of an anti-Semitic incident in London last year have provided a timely, if troubling, backdrop to Baddiel’s programme.

In the US last month, rapper Kanye West’s anti-Semitic comments saw him swiftly and publicly dropped by sponsors Adidas, Gap and Balenciaga. Does that unequivocal response not provide proof that Jews do count? Only up to a point, it would seem.

“David Schwimmer, who’s on my documentary, called him out very powerfully,” says Baddiel. “But David has already had lots and lots of pushback on that; death threats and all sorts of things.

“There’s a really strong notion anti-Semitism is about religion and so effectively ‘downgraded’. In the hierarchy of things that are considered important, religious intolerance is not deemed as important as racism, and is either dismissed or not recognised.”

Baddiel points out that for centuries, Jewishness has been seen as race. Non-observance didn’t save any of the six million Jews murdered by the Third Reich, individually selected and exterminated under the Nuremberg racial purity laws. The 58-year-old owes his life to the fact this country took in his grandparents and mother who fled Nazi Germany, something that makes him proud to be British. And a Jew.

“We get an eye roll if we stand up for ourselves at all,” says comedian Sarah Silverman in the programme. “It’s ‘Oh stop, they’re fine, they run Hollywood, they’re rich …’ ”

Baddiel wryly observes the lack of sympathy Jews face when they admit to being fearful. They are invariably asked to “stop banging on about the Holocaust”. Because the worst has already happened, surely anything else is just attention-seeking?

A case in point is the very fresh furore surrounding the London-based Icarus Theatre Collective’s astonishingly crass plans for a production of a non-binary Romeo and Juliet set in 1930s Germany, in which the Montagues are Nazis and the Capulets are Jews.

No, not a spoof à la The Producers, and hardly what Shakespeare envisioned when he described “those two houses both alike in dignity”. But the phoney equivalence aside, when the casting call went out it asked for “non-binary artists, and/or those of global majority, black or Asian heritage” to join the cast. No invitation was extended towards Jewish actors.

“The Icarus Theatre have tried to say, ‘Sorry, we thought it was obvious that Jews were included,’ ” says Baddiel. “No, clearly, you just forgot. And that’s actually really important; you have forgotten because in our age of identity politics you don’t think Jews are a proper minority.”

The production has since been cancelled; literally that is, not just on social media. It came too late for inclusion in Jews Don’t Count, but Baddiel’s not short of material. If the documentary sounds angry, be assured it’s not. Well, maybe a little. But then humour, humanity, leavens it – some of the best quips are so outrageous, so transgressive, only Jewish people could possibly tell them.

Interestingly, while pinioning others for their anti-Semitism – including Whoopi Goldberg and comedian Leigh Francis (AKA Keith Lemon) – Baddiel, to his credit, also interrogates his own behaviour, namely his blackface portrayal of former Nottingham Forest striker Jason Lee in the 1990s TV show Fantasy Football League.

If the encounter with Margolyes is tricky, it’s got nothing on Baddiel turning up, in person, to apologise to Jason Lee. He’s said sorry online and in the media but not man to man. Lee, dignified, articulate, doesn’t make it easy. “Why has it taken 25 years for a proper apology?” he enquires with cool restraint.

This is no soundbite moment of instant forgiveness. It seems to go on for ages. Baddiel squirms. So do we. It’s mortifying. It’s ugly. It’s truthful.

“I found it very difficult and complicated and traumatic as I should do,” says Baddiel. “I knew it would be. And I only show four or five minutes. The actual conversation was about an hour long and will be going out on Jason’s podcast.

“But at the end of it he says he will be a Jewish ally. And that’s kind of beautiful.”

David Baddiel: Jews Don’t Count is on Channel 4 at 9pm on November 21