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Hall and Oates’ John Oates: ‘We sold millions of records but I didn’t have a car’

John Oates performing live at Assembly Hall, Islington, London on 27 April 2012 - Simon Jay Price/Retna/Photoshot
John Oates performing live at Assembly Hall, Islington, London on 27 April 2012 - Simon Jay Price/Retna/Photoshot

John Oates is one half of the best-­selling musical duo Hall & Oates. Born in 1948 in New York City, he grew up in rural Pennsylvania and attended Temple University in Philadelphia.

It was here that he met Daryl Hall, with whom he recorded 21 albums and had 10 number one records and more than 20 Top 40 hits. Oates lives in Nashville with his second wife, Aimee. They have a 26-year-old son, Tanner.

How did your upbringing shape your attitude to money?

My parents, Al and Ann, were from America’s greatest generation, who had served in the Second World War. I was born in Lower Manhattan, near my maternal grandmother, who came from Salerno in Italy and spoke little English.

As the first grandson I was treated like royalty. I had to be the centre of attention and that’s good training to be a performer.

In my early teens my father’s factory relocated to Pennsylvania, which was the same as moving to Mars for my New York Italian aunts and uncles. Had I not moved to near Philadelphia, I would never have met Daryl Hall.

My family were able to buy a single family home with the war bonds provided to GIs – much nicer than our little city apartment. We had a car and eventually two cars. It’s the prototypical American dream.

Did you get pocket money?

I never had an allowance, but my parents always helped me and my sister, Diane, in whatever we wanted. Buying a guitar, having guitar lessons, having decent clothes, they were always supportive.

American rock and soul duo Hall & Oates (American singer-songwriter and musician Daryl Hall, wearing a white shirt, open at the collar, and American singer-songwriter and guitarist John Oates who poses shirtless) in a studio portrait, against a blue background - Lynn Goldsmith/Getty Images
American rock and soul duo Hall & Oates (American singer-songwriter and musician Daryl Hall, wearing a white shirt, open at the collar, and American singer-songwriter and guitarist John Oates who poses shirtless) in a studio portrait, against a blue background - Lynn Goldsmith/Getty Images

What was your first wage?

I lasted half a day at a job and was never an employee again. Aged 15 I got a summer job at a commercial greenhouse, going up on scaffolding to paint all the white wooden frames separating thousands of panes of glass.

The first day was hot, and I began painting and stepped straight through the glass. I ended up on my back in the flowerbed and got fired, without being paid the $5 hourly wage. After that I taught guitar lessons and played in bands.

Have you ever worried about not being able to pay the bills?

After university I sold my motorcycle for $400, bought a backpack and landed in London. I took the hovercraft across to France and busked my way around western Europe and ended up back in London in September.

I had to figure out how to get home. In those days you went to the American Express office to get messages and I saw a card: “Flights to New York £100”. And it wasn’t until I was getting ready to get on the plane that I discovered the destination was Niagara Falls, New York State, not New York City.

On landing I had to call my parents and get them to wire me some money so that I could get back to Pennsylvania – because by the time I got to Niagara Falls, I had no money.

I was always able to live modestly, I was a hippie. In the late 1960s and 1970s I shared apartments, slept on the floor or on sofas, I taught guitar lessons throughout college, played in some blues bands. I was always able to get by some way or another.

If you live within your means, you’ll never have to worry about it.

In 1987 you discovered that, after selling 80 million records, you were broke, with $50 in your wallet. How did that happen?

I didn’t look after my money or pay enough attention. It was an era when it was presented as: “Hey, why should you get bogged down when you’re ­travelling the world, having fun, playing music, making records? That’s your job. Money is our job, let us take care of it.”

It’s very seductive to be told not to worry about something, go and have fun. I don’t blame my managers; I blame myself for not being more educated.

Daryl Hall and John Oates of Hall And Oates perform on a TV show in 1975 - Gijsbert Hanekroot/Redferns
Daryl Hall and John Oates of Hall And Oates perform on a TV show in 1975 - Gijsbert Hanekroot/Redferns

It’s an age-old story in the music business. I’m not unusual. Look at Billy Joel, Chuck Berry and Elvis. At first I was bitter, but it turned out to be the best thing, because it set the course for the rest of my life.

I figured out a strategy to change my life. Regardless of whether I had money in the bank, I had a lot of hard assets. I had several houses, two apartments in New York City, I had an aeroplane and a collection of vintage cars.

The first thing I did was sell everything quickly. In the 1980s people were buying things and I generated a lot of money, high six figures, which could provide a cushion.

The only thing I didn’t sell was my condo in Aspen, Colorado. And I moved into my little condo and I didn’t even have a car. I rode my bike for two years. I left the toxic environment and toxic people who were part of that 1980s world for me.

In 1989 or 1990 I sold a car that I had ­custom-­designed in Germany during my tours in the mid-1980s. A year and a half ago I found it on an online auction and ended up buying it back.

I lost money initially when I sold it and I bought it back for way more than I paid for it. So I guess I lost money. But that wasn’t the point. The point was, we just found it again, it was serendipitous.

What has been your worst financial decision?

Not paying attention to my financial business during the 1980s. That was my worst without a doubt. And that never happened again.

And your best?

Luckily, my best financial decision was vowing never to be in debt. And to always own everything that I have both physically and creatively.

I’m very much involved in licensing and branding. The future of Hall & Oates as music is in its past.

Taking advantage of the legacy of the music that we created, with integrity, is a full-time job. People come to us all the time, we grant several licences every week for various usages for TV commercials, movies and online streaming. It’s a lucrative business worth millions of dollars.

INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA - SEPTEMBER 03: John Oates of Daryl Hall & John Oates performs on day 1 of the ALL IN Arts & Music Festival at Indiana State Fairgrounds on September 03, 2022 in Indianapolis, Indiana - Scott Legato/ Getty Images
INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA - SEPTEMBER 03: John Oates of Daryl Hall & John Oates performs on day 1 of the ALL IN Arts & Music Festival at Indiana State Fairgrounds on September 03, 2022 in Indianapolis, Indiana - Scott Legato/ Getty Images

What was the most lucrative piece of work you ever did?

Moving to Nashville and creating a musical identity for myself in the Americana music community, which has given me an entirely new lease of life. And while it doesn’t necessarily generate a lot of money, it generates a lot of satisfaction.

Are you a spender or a saver?

I’m not afraid to spend on things that I like. If I can afford it, I’ll buy it. I just bought a smart watch for $275 online, because it looked cool.

I have a collection of vintage sports cars. And I’m always looking for that next special thing. Concepts like being in debt were not even part of my life. My parents were never in debt. They never had to worry about things like that.

My wife comes from a very solid Midwestern farming family. And they didn’t even have credit cards until a few years ago.

How did you become involved with men’s health charity Movember?

Our social media folks reached out to me and said: “Hey, Movember’s interested in offering you to be their international spokesperson.”

And my first reaction was, why the hell didn’t they call me sooner? After all, I am the patron saint of facial hair for younger people.


John Oates is an ambassador for Movember